Initial Thoughts: The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham
I didn’t get to watch the pop up episode before the new one this week. Anyone have any good stuff from it?
1. How could Locke not be nominated for an Emmy award for acting? He has been spectacular this season so hopefully we’ll see a nomination next year. Although, Lost isn’t the show dejour anymore so who knows if the powers that be will even notice.
2. Alana tells Cesar that she first saw Locke standing in the water in his suit. I just watched part of Season One again this past weekend and the first time Jack sees his dad on the island is…. you guessed it, just standing there in the water, in his suit! I think this is confirmation that Jack’s dad had some sort of resurrection like Locke has had coming back to the island.
3. Cesar and the new plane crash “Losties” are on the second island. He knows stuff. Why else would he be looking for maps and information about the island? Why does he need the shot gun? Seems like someone gave him some insider information before he came to the island.
4. Also looks like rather than a tragic plane crash, they were lucky to have the landing strip that Kate and Sawyer helped build. My guess is that in some of the time travel they knew that the plane would be coming with Locke so they were building the strip for that landing specifically.
5. Frank and “some woman” took one of the boats and headed off. Great, now I’m wondering what Frank is up to (I thought he was a good guy). How could he have possibly known that they had landed on a second island? Who was the woman he was with, where did they go, what are the up to?
6. Is Alana going to be the new Ana Lucia of the island – only far less annoying? She fits the tough cop role.
7. I’m guessing Locke wants the passenger list so he can make sure all six were on the plane. Remind you of another list? Ben wanted the manifest from flight 815 probably for a very similar reason and maybe one of them was to see if Christian was there as well.
8. I love how Locke just enjoys life. He eats that mango like it’s his first after being resurrected from the dead. Oh wait…
9. There is a lot of truth telling this week. But then again, maybe not. Do we really know that Widmore is the good guy? Creepy eyed man wasn’t telling the truth – from what we saw when he first lied about Helen. Ben loves, hates, loves, kills Locke.
10. Did we really need to see Locke puke? YUCK!
11. So Widmore is watching the “exit” from the island. His story sounds about what we thought. He was exiled by Ben and now he wants to go back. But I’m not so sure I believe that Widmore was the leader. However, Ben just takes what he wants so I guess it’s possible that in his jealousy he found a way to get Widmore off the island. It’s also possible that they are *both*hot heads and they *both* wanted and still want to be the leader and each is willing to do anything to get back and be the self-appointed leader.
12. Somehow Locke does fit into all this and I don’t know that there is enough information at this point to know why he’s so important and why both Widmore and Ben want Locke back.
13. You know, they could have treated Locke a little more gently when the plucked him from the desert. The only thing I can figure is that they didn’t know if he was a good guy or a bad guy when they first found him. Also, I was thinking of the parallel imagery between being born and what Locke went through. He “wakes up” like just being born, and all these strangers grab him and man handle him and shove stuff in his mouth and hurt him. Maybe like what a baby feels right after being born?
14. So what’s this war all about that’s coming? I don’t think they are talking about some type of atomic bomb or could they? If it was an actual world war I could see why they’d want to be on a time shifting island. I want to go there too!
15. Widmore says that the island needs Locke and it has for a long time. Can’t wait to see what that’s all about.
16. When Widmore and Locke were chatting right before Locke took off for the airport, it looked remarkably like Eko’s village. The dirt and the kids kicking a ball around. Maybe a recycled set?
17. I also liked that Widmore answered every single one of Locke’s questions without hesitation. Now, maybe he’s a professional liar and is just less jumpy and allusive than Ben, who knows. But it was nice that people were asking and people were answering!
18. Interesting that Sayid chose to do charity work. Seems a bit like he was running away from the law while trying to make some type of penance for all the bad that he did back home.
19. So why did the obituary say Locke was survived by a teenage son? Did I miss something? And I was certainly expecting more when Locke met Walt. I thought it would be a far more touching scene. Instead Walt is just having dreams about Locke back on the island in a suit and a lot of people trying to kill him. I’m hoping we’ll see more Walt as there has to be some explanation of why he’s so special.
20. Abbadon helps people get to where they need to go. So he’s the grim reaper, right?
21. Helen died of a brain aneurysm 4/8/06. Really? Just because we see a tombstone doesn’t mean someone is dead (Jin). The writers once said that once someone dies, they are dead but I guess that’s not true since Christian and Locke are up and walking around. I still found it very sad for Locke. The one person in his life that he really loved.
22. Locke’s one visit to Jack was enough to convince him to go back? Now we see why he was on that plane ride a few seasons ago, just wishing the plane would crash. I think that Jack already had a very heavy sense of guilt for leaving the other Losties back on the island and Locke’s visit just pushed him over the edge.
23. That is one crappy hotel that Widmore puts Locke in.
24. I want to confess that I cried when Locke was trying to kill himself. His anguish was palpable! And I don’t think he was going to kill himself to save the island, he was doing it because he genuinely believed that he was a failure. Heartbreaking scene for me.
25. I believe that Ben truly did not want Locke to kill himself. That is, until he heard that Jin was alive and then to know that Locke has to see Mrs Hawking, that put him over the edge. But… killing Locke with his bare hands!!! I know that Ben is not above killing people (remember the killing his own father while looking him in the face?). But come on! Outside of when Charlie died, this was my second least favorite scene of this show. And I don’t mean in an angry way, but that “I’m so emotionally invested in these characters I couldn’t bear to watch” kind of way.
26. “I’ll miss you John, I really will.” Ben is completely convinced killing Locke was what he had to do. Does he believe that Locke will rise again?
27. So the previews are setting it up like Kate and Sawyer reuniting is the scene we’ve been waiting for. Not for me! The first scene I wanted was the Desmond and Penny meeting, which we got. The second one that I want to see is when Juliet reunites with her sister. Sawyer and Kate, yeah, it’s interesting but I have sisters and one in particular that I’m very close to and if I knew she was sick and then I left and couldn’t come back to know how she was doing I’d be devastated! To me, that is way more moving that two people that only met a few months ago.
28. Cesar saw the light right before the O6 disappeared huh? So far, only those *traveling* have seen that light. Not sure that there is anything to that yet.
29. And when is Vincent coming back!
February 26th, 2009 at 3:39 am
First things first… Ben talked Locke out of killing himself right up until Locke mentioned talking to Hawkin, then Ben went psycho on Locke and offed him. I think Ben must be hiding stuff from Hawkin and he didn’t want her and Locke comparing notes. I think he also knew that Locke would be resurrected on the island once he got his body back. Locke definitely seems to be himself.
Ben ralphed too after he turned the wheel and ended up in the desert. I was thinking the reason those guys were so rough with Locke and in such a rush is because maybe they were getting him out of there before someone else came and got him – like Ben’s team.
I’m still not so sure if Widmore is a good guy or not. I kind of thought he was the former leader on the island, but also he seemed like such a little brat too when we saw him in the 1950’s. But then he was only 17 and not the mogul he is today.
Okay, remember when the Losties found the boats on the beach at their own camp? The same boats the new guys found where their plane landed. Now it seems like the Losties who remained on the island are back in time in the hayday of the DI, at least some of the O6 are also there since Jin found them and he was wearing a DI jumpsuit. But Locke and the new guys are in the future. I was thinking how when the Losties found their camp and those boats how their camp was kind of a wreck, maybe that was some amount of time in the future and the camp was just suffering from years of neglect – the O6 were off the island for 3 years.
I agree Cesar is up to something. I think he got on that plane on purpose, maybe he learned the the O6 were all getting on it.
By the way, I do think Ben tried to kill Penny, but he was so roughed up, I don’t think it went so well. Mrs. Hawkin told Desmond the island wasn’t through with him. I’m pretty sure Desmond… and hopefully Penny and little Charlie are going to encounter a storm on their boat and end up on the island together.
I wonder if Abbadon is really dead or if he survived that attack, though he did look pretty dead in the last glimpse we got of him. I was wondering about that grave that Abbadon took Locke to as well. That may have been a set up to take Locke’s mind off of Helen and focus him on getting the O6 to the island.
I hope Rose and Bernard didn’t eat Vincent.
Well, there was a lot to digest in this show. I liked how Ben ended up with Locke… He’s the guy who killed me…lol. I can’t wait to see what happens there.
February 26th, 2009 at 9:31 am
I have to add something before I write my summary later on. Ben told Jack the story of Thomas last week and we assumed it was for Jack. BUT, after sleeping on it, I think the story was actually for Ben himself. Ben was the Doubting Thomas and he likes Locke so I dont’ think he did want him to die. Right up until Locke mentioned Jin and Mrs Hawking I think Ben questioned all of what is going on. The he realized that it was true and that Locke *had* to die. The scene of Ben with Locke even looked like the painting in the church (the positioning)
February 26th, 2009 at 11:37 am
I was kind of disappointed that we didn’t get any jack, kate, hurley, jin from last week’s. But the episode was great. It answered alot of questions that i had. I am dying to know where rose, bernard and vincent are. It’s killing me. I think the woman that Lapidus sailed off with is Sun. They probably went to the other island. But then i have to ask how do they know about the other island and that they are on it?
February 26th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
im stuck on this course correction (aka “fate”) thing and how things all have to happen a certain way .. maybe ben had to kill locke as opposed to locke killing himself ???
but then the comment of how he is going to miss him wouldnt make sense ..
i dont know anything …
February 26th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
I was thinking about the obit for Jeremy Bentham….now that Locke has seen Walt again and gone on his way, maybe the “survived by a teenage son” thing was just part of the cover identity that Widmore set up for Lock prior to his return to civilization??
February 26th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
I think Frank took off with Sun to find Jin.
February 26th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
I must have missed it , but does anyone remember who told Locke about Eloise and that he needs to find her?
February 26th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
Obviously when Ben saw Locke trying to hang himself – HE KNEW IT WOULD NOT WORK! The island won’t let it’s “children” commit suicide – Michael, Jack etc. He had to be “killed”. I think Ben IS good and that Widmore and most likely his ex-wife Hawking are B-A-D
February 26th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
I agree completely with the second half of #11:
“It’s also possible that they are *both*hot heads and they *both* wanted and still want to be the leader and each is willing to do anything to get back and be the self-appointed leader.”
Ultimately, Ben and Widmore are extremely intelligent, power-hungry guys who were NOT meant to be the leader of the Others (if we’re still calling them that). Locke is, and has always been destined to be, their leader, and he will become that leader eventually, no matter what has to be done to Ben or Widmore. But they’ve just killed too many people to be considered “good,” or in Ben’s words, “everything I’ve done, I’ve done for the island.” I’m sick of feeling sympathy towards Michael Emerson’s sorry face (which is just a testament to how good an actor he is).
Also, you said you were almost brought to tears at the attempted suicide scene. But I have to say, I was just as moved, if not more so, when he visited Sayid, Hurley, Kate, and Jack in his wheelchair and they just snubbed him.
February 26th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
Question…has anyone from the show ever confirmed the interpretation of the obituary as canon to the story?
Also, I have to call BS on Jack’s facial hair. It wasn’t long enough to have grown into that freaky beard he was sporting when he found out Locke was dead. It felt like the scene between Locke and Jack in the hospital should have taken place at LEAST a couple months before Locke died. It just doesn’t quite match up; Jack booking his ticket that night; seeming lucid in the hospital and then a drunk/drugged up mess (with said freaky beard) a couple days later. For that matter, I also don’t buy all of them referring to him as Jeremy Bentham. They heard this name maybe, what, once? I understand the necessity on the writers’ part to keep Locke’s identity secret in the season 4 finale until the big reveal and to use the name change as a tool in doing this, but doesn’t it seem a bit odd that they’d all somehow be comfortable calling him Jeremy Bentham?
February 26th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
Also…did anyone think the reactions of the O6 upon seeing Locke again were just a little too casual? I feel like my natural response would have been, “Holy shit! Hi! How are you off the island?! What happened to the island?!” They all seemed like they were expecting him to show up. Maybe they were…?
February 26th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
Hey Alex. I totally agree about that funky beard of Jacks. I grew one for 6 months and it wasn’t even half as bushy as Jacks. I also agree about the O6 not being curious as to how Locke got off the island. None of them even asked about the other Losties left on the island. That would have been my first question, followed by how’d you get off. But they’ve made other blunders in the past, like with Claire finding out she was pregnant and talking to her boyfriend as if her mother was fine and not in a coma. But I can forgive the writers some mistakes.
I think the island picks a leader and replaces that leader when a better one shows up. It seems like the deposed leader doesn’t like it that much by Widmore’s and Ben’s reactions. I was thinking that Widmore may have been lying about being the leader before Ben, but back in season 4, Ben did’t argue it when he was alone with Widmore in his bedroom and he said that the island was his long before Ben showed up.
I’m not sure if Locke will be the ultimate leader on the island. They have been setting Jack up for quite a while. I’m sure that Christian has some connection with the island, now they’ve thrown his father into the mix. Maybe Christian was born on the island. But back to Jack – remember when he got his tattoo, that woman said that Jack was a leader, but it makes him angry and lonely. I think Jack is being prepared and tested to become the leader of the island. When he was on the island, he really wasn’t that good of a leader, he was too impulsive, impatient, emotional, always trying to do everything himself and several other issues. But no one else was willing to step up to the job. Like Sayid said to Jack at the ned of season 3 when they were going to the radio tower – it’s time for you to start acting like a leader. But now Jack’s been off the island, he saw how lousy his life was and now will be coming back a bit changed. I think he’ll be meeting his father this season and that’ll really open Jack up to the possibilities of the island (that and seeing Locke running around again too).
February 26th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
What i want to know is when Locke was talking to Kate and trying to convince her to go back and they had that little conversation about love. why didn’t Locke tell her that Sawyer was alive? She might have wanted to go back then.
I think that pushed Jack over in my opinion was Locke telling him that he talked to his father on the island before he left. So then when he booked that flight he ass hoping it would crash but why would he want to see his father so bad, assuming that’s what it really was?
I’m looking forward to next week’s rerun episode with the pop ups. I really want to know if it says anything about why Ben “decides” to kill Locke.
On a side not, have any of you watched the LOST Untangled things? I haven’t but i’ve heard good things about them.
February 26th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
Max: Widmore tells Locke when he’s in the hospital in Tunisa to go find Mrs Hawking. Foff; You’re right, even if they were “less than friends” their lackadaisical attitude to him was pretty crappy. Lots of good comments and ideas. Just when I think Lost can’t get any better, they one up themselves again.
February 26th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
GG: It’s a shame the show is almost over. If I remember correctly, we only have one more season after this one. They don’t put enough thinking shows on TV. I think that’s why the ratings keep dropping, I guess most people don’t like to think, just ride along. Me, I enjoy having my brain tickled.
February 26th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
its really all peicing together now! the exit point explains that random polar bear skeleton in the desert that charlotte finds, the whole jeremy bentham situation! kept me waiting and spun me out for so long but im finally peicing it all together. you’re rite there gary, not enough thinkin shows on t.v… its all predictable mainstream poop for the numb minded general population. loves it
February 26th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
I’ll agree with that colin. Some of the writers are also lazy, when they can’t think of something new, they’re like, hey, let’s put out 90210 or the Bionic Woman again. It sold the first time around, why not try it again. We can just rehash all the same episodes with new actors. Or why not another cop or doctor show with lots of sex.
February 26th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Thank you for your site. I can’t wait to read it each week!
I apologize if this isn’t new but…
I have been looking for answers in new places. this show has always had tons of religious and particulary Catholic themes and undertones. So I have been thinking about all of the characters names. Many of the characters share a name with either a biblical figure or a saint. Are their names just clever ways of telling us about their character or do they give us a clue about what they are going to do?
Some examples:
Daniel is known for being a great prophet. His prophesies tell of terrible times to come and how things will be restored. He was one of the king’s 4 wisemen. He interpreted dreams and helped to restore the Jewish people to their home land. He is also known for being in the Lion’s den and surviving because God saved him. You might find it interesting to read the book of Daniel. Its not that long.
John: There are two prominent Johns in the bible. John the Baptist and John the Apostle. John the apostle was the first to believe that Jesus had risen from the dead. John the Baptist announced the coming of Christ. His father was mute during his mother’s (Elizabeth) pregnancy because he did not believe that they would have children at such an old age. He was Jesus’ cousin and was”to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.” In Luke 1:76 as “…thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways and in Luke 1:77 as being “To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins.”
John the Baptist was beheaded.
Jacob is huge in the old testament…(more to look at)
Benjamin was Jacob’s youngest son. His mother died giving birth to him…
Christian=Christ?
I am still looking at the other characters. But one can draw many parallels…
February 27th, 2009 at 1:07 am
Hey Hurley, great post. I thought about the religious undertones myself. Way back when Jack found the caves and they named the 2 dead people they found their Adam and Eve, I was thinking maybe the island is actually Eden. There is a great conflict between good and evil on that island and smokey sure does look like a smoke snake. The island does seem to provide both knowledge and life like the two trees in the bible that were found in Eden. Adam ate from the tree of knowledge so they were kicked out of Eden, mostly not because they disobeyed God, but if Adam also ate from the tree of life he would be as a god himself.
February 27th, 2009 at 4:11 am
Did anyone else notice Nadia? After they set Locke’s leg, when his vision was going fuzzy right before he passed out. She was the only woman next to the bed on the left side of the screen. What was she doing there?
February 27th, 2009 at 11:05 am
Gillian – I missed that. I’ll be looking for her next week. If she is there, it’d support what Mr. Widmore is saying about him trying to protect the O6. I thought of something else too. When Locke wakes up, Widmore tells him he brought in one of his own doctors to work on him. Maybe he also inplanted some kind of tracking/locating device on Locke as well.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Gillian, I’m going to have to look for that too. But that takes place after she is killed. How could she be if that’s really her?
GaryG, I like the idea of the implanting but couldn’t Abadon (sp?) have just told him where he was at all times? Unless you are thinking maybe once he got back to the island he could track him?
February 27th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
Ashleyb, ya, I was thinking about when he goes back to the island. I’m thinking Cesar is a Widmore man. But then he doesn’t seem to know who Ben is, but then he could just be playing dumb.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
By the way, when we see that the plane is pretty much intact, it reminds me of when we first meet Frank and Miles says, where’d you crash the helicopter and Frank replies, what kind of pilot do you think I am? I landed it over there…lol.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
GaryG-that’s funny i totally forgot about that. Maybe Cesar does know who Ben is ans is playing dumb so he can learn things from Locke and then he can tell Widmore somehow?!
February 28th, 2009 at 2:41 am
I had another thought. We all know Ben is sneaky. It’s possible he also had someone on that plane who works for him that he is keeping secret. Like maybe the woman who was escorting Sayid. We kind of just saw her with Sayid and nothing more. Cesar could also be Ben’s man as much as he could be working for Widmore or even a third party because the DHARMA guys must still be around since they were still making food drops to the island. Hawkin is kind of confusing, it seems like she works with both Ben and Widmore, maybe she’s neutral to both sides – could she actually be a member of DHARMA? It seems to be able to find the island and make those food drops, they’d need access to the Lampost from what she told the O6. Then there’s also the Hanso Foundation. So there could be other players besides Ben and Widmore.
February 28th, 2009 at 11:21 am
I think we will go back and forth between who is good or evil; Ben or Widmore. Of course after this week with Ben killing Locke, it’s easy to assume he is evil – but what if he had to kill Locke? It’s possible Ben and Locke are on the same side with Mrs. Hawking and there is an unknown threat to the island.
Sayid may be working for Widmore – perhaps he beat up Ben when he tried to kill Penny and Widmore sent him on the plane with Ilana and Cesar, who work for him.
What I do know is that I love this show.
March 1st, 2009 at 5:45 am
I know Nadia is supposed to be dead, but I could of sworn that it was her. And why did they film it that way, it’s like they wanted you to see her.
March 1st, 2009 at 6:59 am
[...] Click here to read my initial thoughts on this episode. [...]
March 1st, 2009 at 10:19 am
I just watched that part over and over and over, and I don’t think that is her. I think it is just a nurse working in that clinic. If it were, what a twist! But they would have made it more obvious if it were her. I could be wrong, but I do not think it is her.
March 1st, 2009 at 2:51 pm
I wish I had the show on tape so I could watch it again to see if it was Nadia. If it is her, it also raises the question whether or not Helen is also dead. We know Widmore wants the O6 back on the island just as much as Ben and Hawkin does. Maybe Widmore wanted to remove anything that might keep them from going back so staged their deaths. But you think that since Nadia was murdered, someone would have had to identify her body. But there are drugs that can make a person appear dead, so who knows.
March 1st, 2009 at 3:11 pm
Sorry guys, it’s not Nadia. I have gone through by frames and it’s not her and the actress is not listed in the epi either.
April 20th, 2009 at 5:02 am
“2. Alana tells Cesar that she first saw Locke standing in the water in his suit. I just watched part of Season One again this past weekend and the first time Jack sees his dad on the island is…. you guessed it, just standing there in the water, in his suit! I think this is confirmation that Jack’s dad had some sort of resurrection like Locke has had coming back to the island.”
More credence to the “Walk a mile in his shoes” to truly understand someone. Since Locke is wearing Christian’s shoes…