Initial Thoughts: The Substitute
NUMBERS!
I never would have guessed that the numbers correspond to each of those on Jacob’s list. I didn’t even expect an answer to the number question. But I for one am more then satisfied with this answer. And to all the naysayers that thought they made this show up as they went along, this is proof positive that the answers were there from the start. Too many connections to the numbers not to have been a plan. Darlton rules!
1. What I want to know is how Locke became paralyzed in the new time line. If his dad didn’t push him then what happened? Was he “meant” to be paralyzed? Is this is cross to bear in life?
2. Ironically the sprinklers come on. The water seems to be associated with trouble in this show.
3. Helen says that she wants to take her parents and his dad to their wedding. Locke’s dad? Can’t wait to see that dynamic. His dad is the original Sawyer. I can’t believe that his dad is not a con man in any time line.
4. I also LOVED that we got to see from Smokey’s point of view. I thought that was a terrific camera shot. But, I want to know what is up with all of the noises Smokey makes. The cricket sound, the growling and the mechanical ticking. Plus remember when Smokey looked like he was taking pictures of Juliet and Kate?
5. Not-Locke says that people seldom get a second chance. Is that what this is about? The island has given them a second chance? We can see that their lives back home were pretty crappy in the non-crash time line. Redemption?
6. Randy is back. Wow, that guy is a huge douche (like Hurley said).
7. Hey, maybe we’ll find out where the nickname “Hurley” came from. Or why Libby was obsessed with him.
8. I’m glad we’re getting a Richard episode. I want to know what Jacob did use Richard for.
9. I’m also curious to see who the little boy that Not-Locke is chasing. I don’t think we have enough back story yet to know who it is. My guess is that it’s someone from long ago. Obviously quite important to Not-Locke since he’s chasing him around like the White Rabbit.
10. How very interesting that Sawyer could see the little boy but Richard couldn’t.
11. Ilana has more connection to Jacob then we know yet. She wasn’t crying over her team mates. And collecting the ash will surely come in handy later. She also knows a whole lot about this island. I’m sure she’s spent some time here before.
12. OK, I really think that Sawyer had part of the bomb at his kitchen sink. I’ll screen cap it later.
13. Saywer had “the best” lines this episode. I hate what they did to his character (killing Juliet) but I love that they have brought back the slick con man from Season One. We know there is a good guy down in there now so it’s hard not to like him. Also, I will gamble and say that there is no way Sawyer will leave this island without at least Kate. We know there is a good part of Sawyer down there. No way he’ll leave. Remember that Sawyer is a professional con man. He could very well be playing a con on Not-Locke right now.
14. So remember that Hurley owned a box factory in our original time line that blew up. He made a lot of money off of it. Guess Locke may have dodged a bullet getting fired from there.
15. Hm, and Hurley introduces himself in the new time line as “Hugo Reyes.” Maybe he is the only one whose life really was better without the crash. But…. without the crash this new time line would not have happened.
16. The little boy tells Not-Locke that according to the rules he can’t kill Jacob. Not-Locke supposedly found a loop hole. But did he? Or, is the boy telling Not-Locke that he can’t kill Saywer? He only says “you can’t kill HIM.” So the little boy may very well be Jacob.
17. Ben had said before that Widmore wanted to kill everyone on the island. That if the freighter got there that they would kill everyone on the island. Now Richard tells Sawyer that Not-Locke is going to kill everyone. Coincidence?
18. It’s pretty cool that Rose is working for Hurley. She’s still the calm voice of reason. And she still has her cancer. Guess she’s about the same in both time lines.
19. There is the possibility that Not-Locke is trapped much like Juliet felt trapped on the island.
20. Ilana says that Not-Locke cannot change his face again, “he’s stuck this way.” Guess burying Locke’s body was a good idea since he won’t be coming back then.
21. This burial reminded me of the ones in the past. No one had anything to say. I was very shocked that Ben admitted to murdering him. Right now Ben has to be so lost. He’s not the leader, he doesn’t have Jacob to follow and his “family” is dead.
22. The irony of the title of this episode. Locke is the substitute in two ways. Not-Locke and the substitute teacher. Looks like this teaching job Rose found him will prove to be very meaningful in his new time line life. And meeting Ben! Wow, Ben was grouchy too! Maybe because he’s teaching European history.
23. Locke’s life has to be somewhat different back home. He’s still engaged to Helen and she didn’t leave him. He must have done some things right. but, was interested that he lied to Jack about going on the walkabout. But he’s not as much of a man of faith, more like a good faker.
24. Did you notice that Helen’s shirt said “Peace and Karma?”
25. Now that Locke and Sawyer are down the ladders how on earth are they getting back up? Not-Locke had to save Sawyer for now. He must need him alive…. for now. Maybe has something to do with his name on that cave wall?
26. Three choices – do nothing, stay and “protect” the island, or leave.
27. What answers is Sawyer looking for? Does he even know?
28. 4- Locke, 8- Reyes , 15-Ford , 16-Jarrah, 23- Shephard, 42-Kwon (he didn’t know if it was Sun or Jin).
29. Where was Kate on the list? What do the numbers signify? Why are the candidates to the be the leader? What makes them qualified? And what about Vincent?
30. In the preview for next week I heard Ben’s voice stating that “someone is coming.” I’m thinking that Desmond is coming. He’s coming back. He’s special, as Daniel pointed out.
32. I’m expecting Walt to show up at the school where Locke is teaching.
February 17th, 2010 at 1:22 am
If i didnt remember wrong, the numbers 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, and 42 are engraved on the door of the swan station. I dont think Dharma Initiative was with Jacob since the others (Richard’s people) were. So was Dharma Initiative on the side of the man in black (smokey), otherwise why would the others launch the purge? But then why would DI put the numbers that represent Jacob’s people on the hatch?
Could Shephard actually mean Christian Shephard but not Jack? Then it leads to a more complicated question, whose side was Christian on? If he was with Jacob, why would he convince John to go back to the real world and die to come back? If Christian was with smokey, why would Jacob assist John all the time while John was back in the real world?
I think the little boy is somehow related to Jacob, the first time the boy appeared he seemed injured as there was blood all over him, representing the death of Jacob. Then the boy also has whitish hair, just like Jacob. But not-Locke seemed to be scared of him, so i dont think that little boy is Jacob, as not-Locke only feels contempt towards Jacob.
This one is a great episode. It’s been 5 years now we have 13 broadcasts left. It would be sad when the show ends and how I would probably never find this passion for another television series.
February 17th, 2010 at 3:17 am
hmm, are you saying that smokey is widmore?
great ep, insightful recap.
cool backstory which furthers the jacob lore.
is the little boy Aaron?
or is he “the island”?
do you think Sawyer suspects Locke is Smokey?
February 17th, 2010 at 3:24 am
I was thinking the blonde boy was Aaron, but I guess it could be Jacob (or maybe they’re the same person, in different timelines).
Can’t wait for next Tuesday! I’m excited for the finale though. This show consumes too much of my mind. I need it to be over.
February 17th, 2010 at 9:53 am
haha i feel the same as loven. i think about this show way too much, let it be over please…
i think the boy, jacob, and aaron (and MiB possibly) are all the same person in different times/dimensions
February 17th, 2010 at 10:01 am
- I thought the boy was a little too old to be Aaron (Aaron would be 3 years old now, and the boy looked to be at least 8 or 9). And if Jacob was an adult when he died and appeared to Hurley as an adult, why would he appear as a child to smokey? I think it’s a new character we’ll learn more about later (another passenger on the Black Rock, perhaps?)
- Rousseau and her crew referred to smokey as a “security system” (I think Ben has too). So the island has a “protector”, there’s a “security system” for something else (what, exactly?), and the “protector” and the “security system” are rivals. Huh?
- They showed Jacob touching each of the characters! Touching appears to designate a candidate. Good job to whomever caught that. I thought, though, that Jacob touched Kate too, yet we didn’t see her name up there. Is Kate a candidate too and we didn’t see her name? Is she “special” in some other way?
- My thought on the numbers: maybe the numbers symbolize the last remaining candidates to replace Jacob. So with 4 (Locke) dead and 16 (Sayid) a giant question mark, that leaves 8 (Hurley), 15 (Sawyer), 23 (Jack), and 42 (Jin/Sun) as the last possibilities to replace Jacob. My current vote is Jack, he always has to fix things!
February 17th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
One thing that I noticed is that the talk about rules and what you can and can’t do is back. Remember what Ben said when they killed his daugher “He changed the rules” . I am guessing he was reffering to Charles W, but are these same rules that exist between Jacob and MiB? Ben seems to be a little out of the picture right now but maybe he knows more about these rules.
ps
I loved that scene where he is making coffee in the teachers lounge.
February 17th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
if anyone truly doesnt think that the writers had at least a general idea of where the show would eventually go, just see this link :
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:Locke_backgammon.jpg
that screen shot is from the pilot, part 2 ..
look familiar to last night ??????
February 17th, 2010 at 6:06 pm
Because of the similarity in the episode titles (What Kate Did, What Kate Does), I decided to revisit the list of episodes from Season 1. And much to my delight, there are direct connections between this season’s episodes and season 1’s episodes. Not sure if it is meant to be that way (destiny) or just a coincidence but so far the featured character has been following the pattern of Season 1. Episodes 1 and 2 featured Jack/Charlie, Episode 3 featured Kate, and Episode 4 featured Locke. In season 1, episode 5 featured Jack/Christian. Will the same pattern ensue????? very interesting
February 17th, 2010 at 11:38 pm
Okay, I’ll start this off with a bit of a joke. If Locke has a good relationship with his dad, the original Sawyer, does that mean that his father wasn’t a con-man? If so, where does that leave James Ford (Sawyer)? Without the original Sawyer being a con-man, I kind of think it only leaves a few options open. Sawyer in the alternate reality has to be either a used car salesman, lawyer or politician.
Kate also may actually be innocent in the alternate reality because in the initial reality she kind of claimed before the other Losties (one of the last episodes of season 1) that she was innocent even though we saw her blow up her father, but in the alternate reality she just says she’s guilty.
Even though Locke tore up Jack’s card, I kind of have a feeling fate will take a hand and they’ll get back together concerning Locke’s back.
Oh, just as a correction, it wasn’t Hurley’s box factory that burnt down, if I remember correctly, it was a shoe factory in Canada that burnt down that was over insurred.
I do think it’s cool that they made refference to that backgammon game that Locke and Walt were playing back in Season 1 about a struggle between Light and Dark. Good catch Hugo Hurley.
Hey, on Flight 815, Jack was seated in 23. That’s his number in the cave. Anna Lucia was on seat 42. I’m not sure what to think of that since Kwan was 42 as well. Obvisouly they were on those back seats.
Okay, in the real time-line, I think we have to assume that Ben wasn’t the first Other to infiltrate the Dharma guys. The numbers on the Swan Station and the broadcast of those same numbers by the Dharma dudes seem to be related. The broadcast may have been to draw the people associated with those numbers to the island… and with Hurley at least, it seemed to have worked since Hurley went to AU because of those numbers and ended up on Flight 815. Hey and what about the “Hurley bird” we hear say “Hurley” the last episode of season 1 and later again in season 2? “Did that bird just say my name?”
According to Locke-ness-monster, the numbers next to the names correspond with Jacob’s replacements. That’s been a trick on this show since Season 1 so I’m not sure if they’re trying to trick us or telling us the truth. But I do know those numbers are significant. Obviously they were all selected to come to the island.
The blonde kid… Who knows, Aaron, young Jacob, both of them traveled from a different point in time. All a posibility. Or someone else altogether. Can’t tell until we have more information. Lockeness sure seems to know him though and is frightened by his appearance. I mean how can we tell after seeing the Losties shift all over time and end up in the 1970’s. Who can say who else is shifting through time. Remember when Locke saw Walt after Ben shot him (Walt was 10 but looked “Big” according to Locke) – who’s to say that wasn’t Walt from the future? Walt = MIB? Who knows.
I’m glad Ben is alive in the alternate time-line. I wasn’t sure if he would be because he was with the hostiles when the other childern were subbed off the island. Young Ben was the whole reason that caused the Losties’ story to come crashing down on them.
So Ben’s a teachter and Locke is a substitute? Hmmm, Ben was the leader of the Others, was Locke only a substutue there as well? Who is meant to be the real leader?
I am looking forward to actually learning more about Richard.
Last Season of Lost… Sob… Will it be another decade before another show comes along to attract my attention? It seems like all we get ar cop shows and doctor shows spawning new cop and doctor shows. Isn’t there now a 3rd CSI and a second NCIS and with Greys Anatomy spawning off Private Practice… that seems to be all the networks have for us.. a new cop or doctor show almost the same but with different people or the same people just in a different show. Or how about doing another show with rich kids like 90215 or Melrose Place… Oh, they already re-did those, well, I guess they can re-do them again in another 10 years.
February 18th, 2010 at 7:12 am
so if these numbers corresponded to people, why would Desmond have to put those numbers into the computer, to stop a meltdown…don’t make sense
February 18th, 2010 at 3:02 pm
SIDENOTE: http://marquee.blogs.cnn.com/2010/02/18/maggie-grace-returning-to-lost/?hpt=Sbin
February 18th, 2010 at 6:17 pm
A thought – what if Ben is to take over as the new Jacob? Remember the almost ritulistic killing of the father to become the leader of the Others? Ben killed of his own father and they wanted Locke to kill off his father. Jacob in a way became the father figure to Ben – the father who ignored him. And speaking of ritulistic – it was exactly that when Ben killed Jacob with Jacob doing nothing to defend himself. Jacob seemed to be asking Ben to look inside himself when he asked him, “What about you?” just before Ben killed him. The Losties may have been brought to the island for the whole purpose of helping Ben out and to teach him.
February 18th, 2010 at 7:05 pm
A thought about 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42 and the reason they seem to pop up so often. I have a feeling it’s so those people associated with them see them again and again, hear them on the transmission, see them on and in the hatch, hear some insane guy repeating them and use them to win the lottery… and, maybe they come to realize those numbers relate to themselves and they realize their own significance. What that significance is, who knows? I mean should we take Locke-ness’ word on what they mean? So far, it seems only Hurley was aware of the numbers. I wonder if Sawyer will remember them from the hatch?
February 18th, 2010 at 7:17 pm
Buy the way, on the numbers – I wonder if they’ve been giving us clues all along as to which Lostie is the most important by showing us these numbers all along? Like Flight 8, 15…Jack sat in seat 23, the plane also left from Gate 23 (so there’s 2 for Jack right there and 1 for Hugo and Sawyer) oh, and Kate’s capture reward was 23 thousand dollars – another for Jack. But what I want to know is who’s number is 108? That might be the most important number since all the others add up to it. Does that make sense?
February 18th, 2010 at 7:30 pm
By the way, to go with my last… if you remember that wall painting down in the hatch, it had all the numbers in it, but 108 was the one shown in the Sun giving it greater significance than all the other numbers. So again, I wonder who’s number is 108 down in that cave.
February 18th, 2010 at 8:34 pm
ilana says to frank ben and sun… “he’s now stuck like this” referring to smokey stuck as locke… but towards the end of season 5 we see him appear as alex, she threatens ben down under the temple to follow locke and do as he says. so thats all a load of bull! he’s not stuck at all, he appeared as alex!!!
also in the new timeline, if locke still got pushed outta the window by his dad, it would have killed him. because in the previous timeline, jacob brought him back to life when he touched him. but they blew up the island, meaning that in 1977 the island sunk… so jacob woulndt have been in reality in 2000 to bring locke back to life because the islands gone, presumably with jacob on it. therefore locke should be dead… unless we find out that he’s paralyzed for some other reason, probably the case.
also ive not noticed anyone wondering how all the losties and the new chaps from the ajira flight are now in the same time. because in season 5 miles, sayid, jack, sawyer etc… were all in 1977 with the dharma, blowing stuff up. and sun frank ben and the ajira’s were in 2007… now sudenly they’re all together in the same year? which year are we in now? i might of missed it, but im well confused, anyone know?
is it the case that the 2 parallell universes are showing 1) what happend if the bomb blew up, and 2) what happened if the bomb didnt blow up, but the incident happened, and flashed them to 2007???
please, sumone explain?
February 19th, 2010 at 2:50 am
Hey colin,
I’m thinking that when they set off the H-bomb, they were catipulted forward in time. That’s why we see the imploded Swan Station – so they really changed nothing in their own time-line, but created a new one where things are different. Don’t assume that Jacob is dead in the alternate time-line because Ben was with the others when the H-bomb blew and not sent away with Ethan and the other Dharma kids and family – but there’s Ben as a teacher there. I’m kind of guessing that Locke’s father didn’t push him out a window in this time-line or else they wouldn’t be talking so nicely about him. You’re correct about Smokey becoming Alex, but also it happened down below the temple where maybe it’s Smokey’s domain so maybe the rules are looser down there. But then, they do make mistakes on this show, like when they first found the Flame station and Sayid is talking about the satellite dish on the roof how it has a range of thousands of miles – well, if it connects to a satellite, that means not thousands of miles but world-wide communications. But I can forgive them since they’re putting out a show so different from all the rest of the junk on TV.
One thing to note though – back in last season, when Sun showed Richard that 1977 Dharma class photo, he tells her he sas them all die. I don’t know exactly what to make of that since they’re alive. Maybe it’s because they got thrown forward in time after the nuke went off and he just assumed they were all dead.
Buy the way, the sound they make this season when they flash between realities sounds a lot like a jet engine. I wonder if in the past it was a jet engine when they did flashbacks and such but they ran the sound backwards.
February 19th, 2010 at 10:22 am
yeh good point, about ben, so jacobs probably not dead. but i dont really agree with the rules being looser under the temple or anything… its probably just a cock up, but as you said, i can forgive them. the only show apart from prison break which i really like; or liked, rest in peace scofield!
there was something else i noticed too. recently ive been rewatching season 5, and on the blu ray boxset, in the bonus features, theres some mysteries of the universe thing which explains the dharma. i think it aired on abc in usa, but im not sure as im from wales. but it talks about people being recruited and job adverts for the dharma… and part of the interview process for the initiative involved psyciatric tests and stuff, and they listed the common questions used by the dharma… 1 being “what animal are you?”……
…….. sound familiar? the same question which the recruitment lady asked locke in the new timeline, twice! so maybe we havnt seen the end of the dharma either???
February 19th, 2010 at 6:37 pm
Oh wow, cool, colin. I watched that on DVD and forgot about that question, but I remember how Locke got upset at his interview from the goofy questions. That was interviewing for a job for Hurley, right? What if Hurley in this time-line has something to do with the DI? The island is sunk, but they made sure we saw the Barracks and that Dharma shark, so the DI may still be around, like you said.
February 19th, 2010 at 7:44 pm
true, maybe hurley replaced alvar hanso! who knows! im looking forward to seeing where they are going with this new time line. because they could have just ended it with the bomb blowing up and i think i would have been happy… but they’ve kept going… so they better have something good in mind!!!
February 19th, 2010 at 10:03 pm
We are forgetting a Kwon. The one that was created on the Island. Baby Kwon (her name escapes me). She could come back to the island with Aaron, and also recall that Aaron is a Shephard, at least his grandfather and uncle are.
May 9th, 2010 at 8:59 am
Prison Break is definitely one of the best action suspense TV series. I love the story line, i like T-bag too..~;